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Author Topic: Official LOST Thread  (Read 28694 times)
dalmatianjaws
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« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2010, 12:46:23 PM »

I agree. Hamlet sucks, Lost rocks.

Let me lay down the law here.

Ambiguity sucks when the writers don't know what the fuck is going on. If the writers know and CHOOSE not to tell everyone, then it can rock if it's done well.

For example, the end of Battlestar Galactica. On the one hand, making SPOILER disappear at the end was a total cop out, but on the other hand they'd completely destroyed her character so it was about the only thing they could do because, let's face it, all the shit that happened to her had no explanation. While that series ending was very satisfying in some respects, that aspect was an absolute storytelling failure. They pulled it off with some grace, but it really is weak.

Another case and point, the movie K-PAX. First of, it's shitty film making all around. Secondly, the writer had no idea if Spacey was a fucking alien or not. Lame as shit.

While I don't need everything telegraphed, I also don't need a long diatribe at the end explaining everying *cough*JK Rowling*cough*and M. Night Shaymalan*cough*


Thus sayeth the Lord.

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Sheridan Passell
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« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2010, 01:05:51 PM »

I know others will disagree, but I thought Unbreakable was one of the best film endings of all time. It made perfect sense, was smart, original and I completely didn't see it coming. It's so rare that a revelation in storytelling feels like exactly that.
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twaddington
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« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2010, 01:53:42 PM »

The final chapter of the last Harry Potter book just ruined the whole series for me. Welll not quite but it was pretty damn lame.

With Lost it seems pretty obvious to me that they didn't have a clue what the end was going to be when they started it, a lot of it has been made up as they went along. Is that an opinion which is generally accepted by you guys? or do you think they had a masterplan from the beginning?
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dnwilliams
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« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2010, 02:37:11 PM »

It's pretty clear that Hamlet is feigning madness, as he says at one point that's how you get people to let their guard down and speak the truth without worrying you're in the room. And that question is not really the main focus of the play, whereas the whole of Lost is based on a question.

Wait a minute, are we comparing Lost to Hamlet??


No, we're not comparing Lost to Hamlet, we're comparing ambiguous stories to unambiguous ones. The fact that you think it is 'clear' that Hamlet is feigning madness is a failure to recognise the ambiguity of the narrative. The fact that he states he will feign madness does not negate the fact that his behaviour is that of a madman until death. He never drops a facade of insanity and monologues about fooling those around him, from the moment he says he will behave like a madman, he does, and he never reverts. There is reason to believe he truly descended into madness. I'd be interested to hear what you consider to be the "main focus" of the play, considering his way with words and his treatment of others is a major factor of every scene, even the ones he isn't in.

I'm even more interested to hear what one question the whole of Lost is based on.

If the writers know and CHOOSE not to tell everyone, then it can rock if it's done well.

It's not ambiguity if the writers didn't purposefully write it that way.

With Lost it seems pretty obvious to me that they didn't have a clue what the end was going to be when they started it, a lot of it has been made up as they went along. Is that an opinion which is generally accepted by you guys? or do you think they had a masterplan from the beginning?

Making up a you go along is writing. At least for television. If they didn't have an end they wouldn't have asked for an end date for the show, so they've known for at least three seasons, which is half of the series' run. So it depends on what you mean by masterplan, but I think I disagree with you.
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Sheridan Passell
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« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2010, 02:40:22 PM »

The narrative drive of Hamlet is not "Is he mad?", it's an element of the story. "What is the island?" is the main narrative drive of Lost.
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dnwilliams
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« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2010, 02:50:45 PM »

You're right about Hamlet, wrong about Lost.

'What is the Island?' is not the main narrative drive at all. You know what the island does, you need to know why the characters are there and what their fate will be, amongst other things that season 6 just introduced.
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twaddington
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« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2010, 03:55:00 PM »

Maybe my objection is against TV as a medium in that it allows you to pose a question and then decide the answer at a later date. I do have a slight problem with that I must admit. Despite that I can appreciate that their is a skill in keeping you engaged by the way the story is told, which Lost has done at certain points. Also Lost has got some great characters, which always helps. I do think it is overly reliant on cliffhangers though. By the way my favourite episode is called 'Greatest Hits' from season 3, it's where Charlie faces his own mortality and lists the 5 greatest moments of his life.

I've just been watching the HBO series Carnivale which I think is amazing. It got cancelled after 2 seasons though and the writer had actually originally conceived it as a 6 season story with the start and ending already decided.
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Sheridan Passell
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« Reply #27 on: February 04, 2010, 04:02:49 PM »

I have to pick up on this point, you just said:

Quote
'What is the Island?' is not the main narrative drive at all. You know what the island does,

But earlier in the thread you said:

Quote
Why they're on the island will be answered, what the island is I highly doubt, and seriously hope not.

 Shocked Huh
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dnwilliams
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« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2010, 04:22:21 PM »

That's not a contradiction Sheridan, 'what it is' and 'why they're there' are two different questions.
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Sheridan Passell
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« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2010, 04:48:13 PM »

Quote
...will be answered, what the island is I highly doubt, and seriously hope not.

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dnwilliams
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« Reply #30 on: February 04, 2010, 05:14:55 PM »

I don't understand what you're trying to say. Maybe you're reading it wrong, I'll rephrase:

I highly doubt, and seriously hope, that they do not answer WHAT the island is. They will answer WHY they're on the island, that is the main narrative drive.
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dalmatianjaws
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« Reply #31 on: February 04, 2010, 06:22:23 PM »


"What is the Island?' is not the main narrative drive at all. You know what the island does, you need to know why the characters are there and what their fate will be, amongst other things that season 6 just introduced.

Someone needs to rewatch season 4
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dnwilliams
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« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2010, 04:05:28 PM »

The whole of season four is about them getting back to the island to fulfil an undisclosed destiny! As in it's about WHY THEY'RE MEANT TO BE THERE, not WHAT IT IS!!!
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dalmatianjaws
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« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2010, 01:39:05 PM »

Just watched Disk One of Season 5 ... horrible, horrible dialog and acting from most parties. Great storyline with Hurley. Ben Linus, as usual, steals the show.

So far, better than season 3, worse than season 4.
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dnwilliams
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« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2010, 02:37:07 PM »

Season 4 is hard to beat.
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dalmatianjaws
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« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2010, 07:15:32 PM »

That's what you said about your mom and I had no trouble there.
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dnwilliams
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« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2010, 01:46:23 PM »

this means war
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Sheridan Passell
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« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2010, 03:27:14 PM »

Whoever wins, we lose.
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dnwilliams
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« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2010, 08:24:14 AM »

I think this is a pretty damn definitive answer regarding whether the most important question is what the island is or why they're there:

http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/2010/02/episode-6x04-substitute-sneak-peek-1.html#axzz0fEWf3FG9
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dalmatianjaws
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« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2010, 12:36:28 PM »

So I just his the season 5 episode called "LaFleur" and ... in a single hour the show is back to season one status. Holy shit it just got good.
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