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Author Topic: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (F) (2 o'clock Critics)  (Read 10406 times)
Mahmoud El-Azzeh
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« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2008, 11:44:55 AM »

Nice!
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Sheridan Passell
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« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2008, 11:42:29 AM »

Anyone else notice Mutt is named after a dog, like Indiana was?
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dalmatianjaws
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« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2008, 04:04:48 PM »

Fuck.

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stinkingbob
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« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2008, 12:01:36 PM »

I was surprised at the movie critics rating of an F for this movie. That is pretty drastic. An F means that it failed at everything. It means that The Happening was a better movie than Indiana Jones!!!! I have to question the movie critics assessment of this movie because it was not bad at all (One movie I would give an F to would be star Michael Dudikoffs, River of Death). But, I also understand that this is his opinion, so I respect it. I may not agree with it, but I respect it. That being said, I really enjoyed the movie. It was fast paced with a lot of action.
I was never bored and no, I didn't feel like it strayed from the feel of the original Indy. I think it was money well spent. What I would like is for the Movie Critic to write a response in the forums to explain his justification of the F rating. I know that he sorta did so in his video review, but I would like to hear what he has to say now. Maybe he had a change of heart and wants to upgradethe ratnig to a C.
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dalmatianjaws
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« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2008, 06:59:37 PM »

Here’s a general rundown in addition to this previous comment:
http://www.movie-moron.com/forum/index.php?topic=707.msg2217#msg2217

And this guy, who gave a gave overview that I totally agree with:
http://www.movie-moron.com/forum/index.php?topic=710.msg2090#msg2090


No film that I've seen, whether Troll 2 or The Happening or whatever, could be as bad as this film. Because, despite the  Hollywood spit-shine, it was lifeless, dull, and mediocre. Other bad films that have been talked about recently on this forum have a real spirit about them. As awful as The Happening truly was, you have to admit that, somehow, M. Night seemed to be TRYING. Sad for him, hilarious for us.

But with Crystal Skull, George Lucas and the quickly fading Steven Spielberg phoned it in, destroyed a franchise, and ruined a story that they started, seemingly finished, and then gave to two generations of fans.

As for a technical breakdown:

Story - There are unneeded scenes. The only scene I really liked at all was the Area 51 scene because of the cool whip stunts ... but really, think about it. There was NO reason for that scene. The skull was somewhere else all along. If the Russians had access to the files that said Indy studied the body then they'd know there was no skull because, honestly, who the fuck would study an alien body and forget to report no skeleton? One of the first rules taught in any creative writing course is, if you get to the end of a scene and nothing has changed, then you don't need the scene. Particularly in screen writing, on a plot level, if something happens and nothing really changed, then it was fluff, weightless, and bogs down the story. After the Area 51 scene and the completely silly A-Bomb scene, Indy goes back to class like nothing changed. Wait ... seriously? Unlike the previous film openings (for 1 and 3) that told a completely separate short story with a complete story arch that introduced characters and character traits for the rest of the film, Crystal Skull tried to link the action to the main story, but in a way that doesn't matter at all. Nothing new is revealed about Indy, except boring, needless exposition.

Dialog - It was either nonsensical or purely informational. Film is a visual medium and yet the filmmakers tell the back story and main story through dialog. When they introduce John Hurt they TELL you why he's important, they don't show it. They TELL you why Mutt matters, tell you why Indy and Ray Winstone are friends .. they talk, talk, talk, talk. Compare the temple scene in Raiders with the graveyard scene in Skull ... one is told TOTALLY with the camera, in the other Indy and Mutt chat about every little boring thing.

Characters - they are reduced to the sum of their quirks. Indy wasn't a person, he was a "teacher" a "snake phobe" a super-hero ... Mutt was a "greaser" complete with the goddamn Fonzie comb gag. They were never a sum of their parts because they only had one or two parts that never combined to a real person.

VFX - so shiny and cartoony, just like the Star Wars prequels. When the praire dog appeared in the first shot the audience started grumbling. It was so awful. And the horrible jungle chase scene looked like one of the green screen photo booths at festivals where you and your friends can all fly on Santa's sleigh.

Camera Work - early in his career, Spielberg claimed that before he started a project he watched certain classic films with the sound turned off, because you could follow the core storyline with no dialog at all and he wanted to keep reteaching himself that lesson. Now, think about the many scenes in Skull where people sit at a table and talk, stand in a cemetary and talk, sit around ANOTHER table and talk ... talk talk talk. With a few brief moments of awesome (ala, revealing Indy through his shadow), Skull is generally shot like a first year student film.

It Breaks its Own Story Rules - Indiana Jones has studied the alien corpse, plus knows about the landing, plus sees all the damn drawings in the temple ... and still, at the end, seems dumbfounded that these are aliens. Plus, the magnetic alien corpse can pull metal THROUGH THE AIR ... but hasn't affected all the other metal in that warehouse for over TEN years!!!

It Breaks the Rules of the Greater Story ... - Indiana Jones can die if he falls off a bridge, can die if he gets run over, can die if he falls into a boat propeller, can die if he's shot with a bullet or arrow. And yet, for some reason, he can survive a fucking ground zero atomic explosion, three waterfalls over 100 feet high. All that, and we're supposed to believe he can lose a fist fight. The movie disobeyed physics and even contradicted itself in its attempt at mindless entertainment.

Not to mention the following: giant cartoon ants, Shia swinging through vines with cartoon monkeys, Marcas Brody's cameo as a headless statue savior, Marion being involved in the conspiracy for no reason at all, the slow zoom in of Henry Jones Sr's black and white death photo while sad music played like the last five minutes of every Full House episode, Shia fencing and holding his balls, the giant animated machine that could cut down jungle foliage AND apparently grate and smooth the path behind for vehicles, the fact that there was television and water in the atomic testing zone, the fact that in that same testing zone Indiana Jones can't get water from one specific spot and that's supposed to indicate the fact that he's even IN an atomic testing zone, the janitor from Scrubs cast as a government operative, the fact that everyone trusts Ray Winstone every time he betrays them, the aliens looked like every fucking other alien ever put on a cheesy Fox show, and the fact that I will never, ever be able to take out my agression via angry, angry sex with Cate Blanchett in her hot Russian outfit.
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stinkingbob
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« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2008, 01:14:04 PM »

I read your post. Points noted. However, I can't understand why you are analyzing every little "inconsistency". Every movie has some layer of disbelief, some situations which befuddles logic, some things that a normal person would never do in real life. And thats the main point here. Its a movie. Imagine if all movies/tv shows were done so that they realistically portrayed everyday life, physics, logic, etc. It would be quite boring.
In 24, do we ever see Jack Bauer take a piss, a shit or even eat? Nope.
In Star Wars Revenge of the Sith, the doctors didn't know Padme had twins!!! I mean, the technology was such 
     that it should have been obvious on their scans.
In all horror movies, why does the idiot-about-to-be-killed go downstairs into the basement alone, with a
      flashlight that dies out after he goes down 2 steps?
In Iron Man, how did Stark build his suit out of missile parts? Most importantly, how was he able to attach a flame
      thrower and flight capabilities to it? And the US government couldn't have done this?
When you go to a movie, you want to escape reality. You want to be entertained for 1 hour and 30 minutes.
Therefore, you have to temporarily suspend "reality". If you go into a theater and start criticizing things because if situation A happened to you, you would have done soemothing differently, then  you will never enjoy any movie.
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Sheridan Passell
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« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2008, 02:11:46 PM »

That's an interesting point actually, I'd like to see an episode of 24 where he takes a 20 minute dump.
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dalmatianjaws
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« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2008, 04:29:07 PM »

OK, I see what you're saying, I was confused. I dig escapism, hell I'm dying to see Wanted and they "curve bullets" in that flick. My beef isn't in how the film denies reality, it's how it denies it's own story.

In terms of Revenge of the Sith, which I haven't seen because I don't believe in rape, it sounds like they DO make an idiotic story mistake ... go figure for George Lucas.

In terms of Skull, the story fails on the level we're talking about here because it denies the reality of the previous Indy films AND of its singular story. How can I like a movie where I never believe the characters are in danger or could possibly lose? Of course, I know that 90% of movies have the heroes win, so obviously I'm not talking about reality. But when you enjoy "escapism" it's because you have a place to escape to.

For example, the strongest parts of the Harry Potter franchise, book or film, are when Rowling really started to figure out her world and pulled story ideas out of her imagination by thinking, "ok, if this was real, what would happen?"  Again, not real in terms of our world, real in terms of the story world.

Indy almost dies multiple times in the first three films. He gets cut, brutalized, falls asleep with exhaustion, recoils when he's shot. His father would have died if not for the grail. All these things matter. In Skull, one second he's getting punched in the face and collapsing like a human being, and later in the film he's falling hundreds of feet into rocks and joking about it. This is a contradiction of itself, regardless of how silly it seems in the real world. It takes all the danger, what J.J. Abrams refers to as "the mystery," out of the story. The unknown means "what will happen?" And by deconstructing the Indy story rules they completely unraveled all the tension. If this film had been set in any other world (ala, not an Indy film) I probably would have thought it was silly, yes, but I never would have been angry or upset. Those reactions came from the glaring blunders on behalf of Lucas and Spielberg, the fact that they denied the three stories they'd worked so hard on before, the stories we all fell in love with, and then ignored ALL of it for the fourth film.

As for some of the other examples, I think there is a level of degree. the main reason Iron Man gets away with its reality breaks is that it doesn't contradict itself. Actually, it comes close. The scene where he falls hundreds of feet into sand and survives. That was pushing the limit, but still remarkably restrained for a comic book adaptation.  Anyway, other than that, all of the "silly" things it goes, like the building of a suit in a cave with no real tools, still have constraints and limitations. They are a challenge to the characters, which is a model on reality. The difference between this and Skull is that while Iron Man tweaks these things and BENDS the rules, George Lucas ignores all thought and nuance. He just says, "I want Indy blown up by an atom bomb" and then walks away. It's sloppy and thoughtless, and even though the dynamic is the same as Iron Man at the core, the LEVEL of disbelief puts the examples on opposite ends of the spectrum. I'm not nitpicking little inconstancies (ala the Iron Man bit) I'm acknowledging huge, glaring contradictions.


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stinkingbob
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« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2008, 05:45:54 PM »

Sheridan: a 20 minute dump?? Naw, not possible. He has to save the world a zillion times over. He has to take a 2 minute dump!

Dalmatian, now I understand where you are coming from and how you feel. I see your point. For me, I look at it like this:  Its been about 18 years since the last Indy film and in between that time, things have changed, technology-wise. CGI is all the rave. Look at the Hulk. You can tell its not real.  Overall, without even taking Indy films 1 and 2 into account, I found this Indy movie entertaining. I think that this film sets up the young kid as the next Indy if they ever make a sequel. But still, I think that a movie should be judged on its own merits and I think that an F was still a little harsh!  Bur, I respect your opinion and review.
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Mahmoud El-Azzeh
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« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2008, 01:52:42 PM »

One thing that *can* be agreed on however, is that we'd all like to do Cate Blanchett in her Russian blue boiler suit and Lloyd Christmas haircut...  Grin Damn, that was strangely hot (Top 10 Strangely Hot Characters anyone?)
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dalmatianjaws
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« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2008, 03:15:57 PM »

Damn, I'm down with that list. You want to start it? I'll contribute. I think that's a list worthy of the main page.

And just to start the weird levels out high, I already submit Helen Mirren in National Treasure 2: Book of Secrets.
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Sheridan Passell
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« Reply #31 on: June 25, 2008, 04:19:07 PM »

All lists will go to the front page, do not fear. Just gearing up to it. Certainly strangely hot needs to happen - anyone down for the grandma from the Goonies?
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dalmatianjaws
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« Reply #32 on: June 25, 2008, 05:51:19 PM »

Wow. I can't quite make it there. Not that I'm trying right this second or anything ...

How aboot ... Tia Dalma from the Pirates sequels or young Kirsten Dunst in Interview with a Vampire ... better stay away from that last one.
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Tyler Lovemark
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« Reply #33 on: June 26, 2008, 01:19:11 AM »

Strangely hot, let's see.  McFly's mother in Back to the Future.  We can't forget Tina Turner from Thunderdome, either.
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Mahmoud El-Azzeh
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« Reply #34 on: June 26, 2008, 08:53:19 AM »

Helena Bonham Carter in Planet of the Apes... again, Lloyd Christmas haircut-approved....
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Mahmoud El-Azzeh
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« Reply #35 on: June 26, 2008, 08:58:29 AM »

On second thought, maybe I should just put Lloyd Christmas. Anyone who can light his farts like a flamethrower is super-hot...
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Sheridan Passell
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« Reply #36 on: June 26, 2008, 12:10:46 PM »

Eve from Wall-E looks kinda hot. Even though she's a floating can.
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dalmatianjaws
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« Reply #37 on: June 26, 2008, 02:12:22 PM »

ok dammit, this is getting its own thread
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stinkingbob
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« Reply #38 on: June 26, 2008, 05:24:17 PM »

I got one and she isn't from the movies: Its Vida the covergirl from FHM magazine. She is HOT!!!!!
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Sheridan Passell
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« Reply #39 on: June 26, 2008, 05:56:51 PM »

Shocking as it is that an FHM cover girl would be attractive, I don't think we can count it.
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